Lively conversations about dead people
Examining their lives can help you focus on yours
There’s this podcast you might want to listen to. It’s a matter of death and life.
Famous & Gravy helps you look at the lives of celebrities from Muhammad Ali to Margaret Thatcher, from George Michael to Alex Trebek to Maya Angelou. All have one thing in common: They died in the last 10 years. But the show is far more insightful than morbid, and might help you sort out your own life in the process.
Take the episode featuring Alan Rickman, who played the villainous Hans Gruber in “Die Hard” and the villainously heroic Professor Snape in the Harry Potter films. Those were highlighted, of course, but the podcast also lets us see a child with a speech impediment, a late-blooming actor whose first real movie role was as Gruber, a beloved mentor who might have regretted not having children.
Hosts Michael Osborne and Amit Kapoor get into things like net worth, longevity, family and self-image, but mostly they focus on what made the person admirable. Take this comment from Kevin Smith, who directed and starred with Rickman in 1999’s “Dogma.”
“When he died, the first thing I thought about was, ‘Fuck! I didn’t get to tell him how important he was to me and my family,’” Smith said. “I never reached out to him because he was fucking Alan Rickman — you know what I’m sayin’? I don’t want to bug that guy.”
They also found advice from Rickman to aspiring actors. “I say, ‘Forget about acting.’ And I really mean it at that point in time, because whatever you do as an actor is cumulative. So I say, ‘Go to art galleries, listen to music, know what’s happening on the news, in the world. Form opinions, develop your tastes and judgments so that when a quality piece of writing is put in front of you, your imagination, which you’ve nurtured, has something to bounce off of.’”
Each episode starts with the first paragraph of the person’s New York Times obituary, like this one: “Biz Markie, the innovative yet proudly goofy rapper, D.J. and producer whose self-deprecating lyrics and off-key wail on songs like “Just a Friend” earned him the nickname Clown Prince of Hip-Hop, died on Friday. He was 57.”
One nice bonus with Famous & Gravy is that if you’re too old to know much about Markie, the episode notes have lots of links for more details. Just like if all you know about John Madden is his video game, the links can guide you to his coaching career and groundbreaking work as an NFL analyst.
Kapoor described how Madden briefly taught a University of California class called “Watching Football,” which helped him learn how to share his passion. “He would be very attuned to when he would lose people, when he got too much into the weeds or giving too much detail to where it was no longer interesting.”
Even if you’re in Gen Z and no episodes involve people your age — doing one on Juice Wrld might be interesting, but could also feel kind of cruel, scrutinizing a life that ended at 21 — you can learn how your life was shaped by people like Ali. You might have seen him only as a guy battling Parkinson’s, but long ago he was a leader in turning public sentiment against the Vietnam War and the draft, and his fast-paced, pre-fight rhymes planted seeds that helped lead to hip-hop.
Two questions the hosts ask are whether they would want that celebrity’s life, and if they could sit down and talk with them, would they rather be sharing coffee, cocktails or cannabis. Ali created conundrums on both counts, as a Muslim who didn’t take their drugs of choice and as a world-famous athlete who was also an extremely unfaithful husband and spent decades with Parkinson’s.
They wanted to give him truth serum, to hear about Parkinson’s and how hard his last decades were, and whether he regrets parts of his life, like the infidelity, having several fights too many and being a peace-loving man in a violent sport.
There’s always a segment called “Malkovich Malkovich,” where they wish they could be inside the celebrity’s head during a key moment, such as when Joan Rivers got hung up on by Johnny Carson, her longtime mentor, when she decided to start a rival talk show. Or when Zsa Zsa Gabor, who looked like she had a promising acting career after her role in “Touch of Evil,” decided to appear in the campy “Queen of Outer Space.” It bombed, and turned her movie career into shrapnel.
I was intrigued by the Gabor episode because I interviewed her decades ago, and was glad they didn’t lazily call her a pre-internet Kim Kardashian. Like Kardashian, Gabor was mostly famous for being famous, but Osborne and Kapoor also pointed to her acting talent and sense of humor.
Some episodes reflect how society has changed, too, so actions and attitudes feel outdated, like Madden’s embrace of football violence, Rivers’ jokes about Elizabeth Taylor’s weight, Gabor’s nine marriages.
As you’re seeing and maybe even second guessing all these powerful people, take time to reflect on your own life, too, from demons that keep you awake to how good of a friend you are to five things you like about you. Maybe this old column on writing your own eulogy will give you a starting point.
Murphy Slaw
Something old: This is my 100th column on Substack. For those who have been with me all or most of the way, thank you. For any relative newbies, here’s the first one, featuring Nine Inch Nails, Elvis Presley and “Crazy Rich Asians.”
Something new: This ad debuted on Instagram and YouTube during Rihanna’s halftime show at the Super Bowl. After you watch, read this story if the spirit moves you.
Something borrowed: If you’re out of touch about dating terms, consider this a refresher course.
Something blue: I hope Senator John Fetterman’s decision to seek treatment for clinical depression helps save a lot of lives, including his. Maybe policymakers will pay more attention to mental health when it involves one of their own, just as alcoholism and drug addiction got a sharper focus decades ago thanks to the struggles of former first lady Betty Ford.
Thanks for the recommendation of the podcast. I've been looking for something to listen to while I walk the dog. I didn't watch the Super Bowl but that commercial is funny because we just brought my mother-in-law from Redmond, Oregon to California to live next door to us. We traveled through Bend many times but I don't remember seeing a Blockbuster. Have a great weekend, Dave.